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Friday, September 08, 2006

Emerging Church Discussions

Reflections of today’s discussion with Don Carson, Andrew Hamilton and Geoff Westlake
Don is a famous evangelical Christian scholar, a Doctor of Philosophy in the New Testament. He has recently written his book ‘Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church’. Andrew is the WA director of
FORGE mission training and Geoff is the Director of ReFrame – a network of missional leaders in WA. They are both leaders in emerging missional churches in WA

To begin with - it must be made aware that the emerging church is very hard to define well, it is also rather different in nature and direction in WA as to America/Europe - however there still are several similarites. Don was rather strong on this point - to express that not all the criticism's in his book are as applicable in WA.... So to begin, Don gave an overview of his book.

He spoke of the strengths and positive aspects of the emerging church culture and then outlined some aspects to be cautious of, or resist. This was the framework his book adopts, with an obvious effort to meet the WA context rather than an American context.
Some noteable strengths include the honest missional drive, the strength in being culturally aware/reading the times, plus the awareness and desire to ask questions concerning what, how and why we ‘do/be’ church in certain ways.
Some noteable weakness include the dubious definitions and understandings of modern/postmodern, the lack of strong biblical theology often found in these movements, the lack of personal commitment to ‘truth’ and the connection with social dynamics being a greater driving force than the connection with the Father often is.

After his talk, both Andrew and Geoff took turns to respond, agreeing with certain aspects of Don’s point of view and disagreeing with other statements – all to be expected.

I was impressed with the combined discussion from Andrew and Geoff. Meeting them before and being involved with Geoff on other occasions, I know them to be men of integrity and adherence to the truth of the Gospel. Andrew shared some of his thoughts on emerging churchs in WA, adding some strengths to the movements stance and suggesting some of Don's criticism's which are not necessraily true in our local context. Geoff shared in more detail of the practical workings of his church community. Being careful to demonstrate its authenticity to both scriptural truths and local context. He suggested that 'established' church's and 'emerging' church's can both learn and gain from each other, that neither is necessarily superior, but both have examples of 'good' and 'less good?' churchs within their boundaries.


Check out Hamo's website - 'Backyard Missionary' for a more detailed overview of the discussion, and postings/comments from many who attended or interested in the discussion.

I left with a mixture of feelings – I do feel as though the more I investigate ‘church’ and how I want to do/be it – I seem to feel both uneasy with my current situation – yet still an uncertainty about the direction I want to move in. I want a connection with a stronger missional community, yet not sure in what context to best work towards this…. Grrrrr….

2 Comments:

Blogger Mully said...

Hey Matt nice blogsite, only just come across it after chatting with you the other day. The last week with Don Carson has been fantastic. A very humble Christian man who wants Christians around the world to know and understand God's Word more thoroughly and to respond to God in praise and honour through Jesus Christ. The 'EC' dialogue was interesting, although it was pretty much what I expected. I must say however that Geoff's presentation of their church seemed more like a social club that tries to find an avenue to do evangelism rather than the Christian church. This is only based on what he said and may not reflect the church in its entirity. Now, I'm not saying the institutional church is the better church - I probably have similar frustations with it as you do. But from a Biblical perspective, the Christian church is the gathering of the body of Christ under the word of God; to edify each others faith and to glorify God. Evangelism is one aspect of the church but I don't think it is the main aspect of the church. Moreover, I am concerned when missiology becomes the framework for determining ecclesiolgy - surely the Bible determines both. Perhaps you could throw a few comments at me on this.

Regarding you entry on $$$sermons, Carson (@ Men's Convention) gave a ripper message in regards to this topic that far outweighs the 'typical 9-pointer' you have in mind.

7:27 PM

 
Blogger Kirbster said...

Hi Mully
Um a few things to consider there…
I agree, listening to Don a few times throughout the week was great – Sun morn @ NBBC was especially good.
I can’t say I agree with you in regards to Cheer’s being more aligned with a social club than with a church.
I think a group which meets to encourage and build one another up in Godliness, sitting under the authority of the Scriptures and with the desire to see JC glorified and his people strengthened (in numbers and depth of relationship) is something more than a social club. Sure, ‘how this is practiced’ may seem different to many established churches – but I don’t see that as a negative thing, as I believe God’s people/his church grow in a number of different ways, this – as with many other ‘styles’ of church has much it can teach the established church – and vice-versa.
I do see Cheer’s being more involved with evangelism than many ‘institutional’ church’s, but if anything that’s got to be a positive thing!

You mentioned you had frustrations with the institutional church? – I’m curious as to what these are?

I agree with your biblical perspective of Christian church – I wouldn’t say Emerging churches focus upon evangelism as the central core of church, not in any of the reading I have done on EC’s – it’s a missional community – but deep at the center is a desire to encourage each other to become more like JC – its just the results/methods are more missional/outwards focused than simply limiting the gifts to mainly edifying those ‘inside’ the church. – It still does edify those ‘inside’ the church, but also seems to connect and relate to those ‘outside’ also.

I agree with you that the Bible should determine both missiology and ecclesiogy – and I’m convinced it does, I’m just not convinced that institutionalised churches have got the perfect grasp of ecclesiogy. (As a whole) I’m not saying Em Churchs do either – but its something they are helping us wrestle with and hopefully to become more faithful with as a result.


Lastly excellent to hear that Don gave a good message regarding Christians and $$$. I don’t have the 9-step method in mind as something I think is good! – just something I think is shallow ( and overdone!) – Its good we have people like Don to help us wrestle with issues at a deeper/more mature level.

Cheers
Kirbs


P.S. - if you get a chance latter, add your thoughts in regards to the 9-step post above - how did Don approach the topic? Would be keen to hear

10:17 PM

 

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